Cain & Able - Who did they marry? (punishment, Earth)

Mystic-als · #1 07-13-2006, 01:19 AM

I have wondered about this fo a while now. The bible tells of Cain and Able having sisters. But if Adam and Eve were the first. Did Cain and Able commit insest?

SoyLeche · #2 07-13-2006, 05:44 AM

in·cest Pronunciation Key
n.

Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.
The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.

Since they really didn't have much of a choice but to marry their sisters (besides possibly some older neices) - I can't immagine that the marriage was either illegal or forbidden by custom, so no, they didn't commit incest.

Willamena · #3 07-13-2006, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

I have wondered about this fo a while now. The bible tells of Cain and Able having sisters. But if Adam and Eve were the first. Did Cain and Able commit insest?

Two brothers don't have to sleep with each other in order to produce sisters.

Ah, I see what was meant. If they married their sisters in order to produce offspring, then yes, that is incest. But I think the Bible also mentions wives and people in far-off lands. Adam and Eve were just the first of the line of ancestors of the Hebrew, and eventually the Jews, God's Chosen People.

SoyLeche · #4 07-13-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willamena

Ah, I see what was meant. If they married their sisters in order to produce offspring, then yes, that is incest. But I think the Bible also mentions wives and people in far-off lands. Adam and Eve were just the first of the line of ancestors of the Hebrew.

Actually, no it isn't. Incest is determined by the laws and customs of the time. If there were no laws against marrying your sister, and it wasn't against the custom of the people, it was not incest. It was marrying your sister, but the term incest does not apply.

Also, would you please offer some refferences for what you have claimed the Bible mentions?

Mystic-als · #5 07-13-2006, 06:27 AM

It is there I read it the other day. I'll do a search for it in Genisis.

Willamena · #6 07-17-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Actually, no it isn't. Incest is determined by the laws and customs of the time. If there were no laws against marrying your sister, and it wasn't against the custom of the people, it was not incest. It was marrying your sister, but the term incest does not apply.

Also, would you please offer some refferences for what you have claimed the Bible mentions?

I disagree; incest is not a legal term. It is simply siblings or cousins having intercourse.

Genesis 4:13-15 - Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. (Implying, of course, that there are people out there whom he might find in his wanderings.)

SoyLeche · #7 07-17-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willamena

I disagree; incest is not a legal term. It is simply siblings or cousins having intercourse.

Genesis 4:13-15 - Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. (Implying, of course, that there are people out there whom he might find in his wanderings.)

Care to back that up? Every definition on dictionary.com says that it is sex between people too closely related to marry. That can be determined by either the legal system or the culture of the time and place. If they aren't considered too closely related to marry, it isn't incest. Until you can show me a more reputable source for the meaning of the word than The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

That verse only implys that there were other people around if you want it to. Where are we told that Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's first children? It is possible that they had many children, and grandchildren, and even great grand children before Cain and Abel were born. I mean, cummon, Adam was 130 years old when Seth (the next child that we know the name of) was born. In 130 years a man and woman with nothing else to do can have a lot of kids. There could have been a fairly sizable population of Adam and Eve's descendants at the time, and they might not have all known one another all that well.

Notice I have said might alot. I'm just pointing out other possibilities.

SoyLeche · #8 07-17-2006, 03:01 PM

Webster Illustrated Contemporary Dictionary, Encyclopedic Edition:

Incest - Sexual intercours between persons too closely related for legal marriage

That's 2 reputable dictionaries on my side. Let's see what you've got.

Willamena · #9 07-17-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Care to back that up? Every definition on dictionary.com says that it is sex between people too closely related to marry. That can be determined by either the legal system or the culture of the time and place. If they aren't considered too closely related to marry, it isn't incest. Until you can show me a more reputable source for the meaning of the word than The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0488196.html

If you like, I'd be happy to amend my statement to say not exclusively a legal term. It makes no difference to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

That verse only implys that there were other people around if you want it to. Where are we told that Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's first children? It is possible that they had many children, and grandchildren, and even great grand children before Cain and Abel were born. I mean, cummon, Adam was 130 years old when Seth (the next child that we know the name of) was born. In 130 years a man and woman with nothing else to do can have a lot of kids. There could have been a fairly sizable population of Adam and Eve's descendants at the time, and they might not have all known one another all that well.

Notice I have said might alot. I'm just pointing out other possibilities.

A discussion of the validity of disparate interpretations is pointless. You asked for the Bible passage that I use to support my claim, I provided it.