Cain & Able - Who did they marry? (punishment, Earth)

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Willamena

http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0488196.html

If you like, I'd be happy to amend my statement to say not exclusively a legal term. It makes no difference to me.


A discussion of the validity of disparate interpretations is pointless. You asked for the Bible passage that I use to support my claim, I provided it.

Ok, I can accept that. That still leaves the what constitutes "closely related" open to cultural interpretation though.

You did not provide a biblical passage to support your claim though. You stated:

the Bible also mentions wives and people in far-off lands

That isn't what the reference that you posted says. You can say that the Bible implys this under your interpretation, but it doesn't say it.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

Ok, I can accept that. That still leaves the what constitutes "closely related" open to cultural interpretation though.

You did not provide a biblical passage to support your claim though. You stated:
That isn't what the reference that you posted says. You can say that the Bible implys this under your interpretation, but it doesn't say it.

But it does. Cain is concerned that the people he will run into will kill him because he will have been branded a murderer. No mention at all is made of other brothers and sisters that Cain and Abel had --that is entirely your fabrication. I, on the other hand, merely pointed to what is written. The people mentioned are "other people", and they are not locals, as Cain would have to go wandering to other lands, wandering the earth, to find them. That is what it says. And on his wanderings he wound up in the land of Nod, where the first mention is made of his wife.

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by Willamena

But it does. Cain is concerned that the people he will run into will kill him because he will have been branded a murderer. No mention at all is made of other brothers and sisters that Cain and Abel had --that is entirely your fabrication. I, on the other hand, merely pointed to what is written. The people mentioned are "other people", and they are not locals, as Cain would have to go wandering to other lands, wandering the earth, to find them. That is what it says. And on his wanderings he wound up in the land of Nod, where the first mention is made of his wife.

It's no more a fabrication of mine as yours is your own fabrication. It never mentions "other" people. Why would "other" people care if he killed his brother or not. Other brothers may though....

His wife is only mentioned at all because he "knew" her and had a son. He very well may have been, and in my mind probably was, married throughout this whole story. There is so little to this story as written that any other details have to be provided by the reader.

I really don't care how people interpret this. I only asked because I don't like it when people say "The Bible says _______" and don't provide a reference for it. There is way too much that people believe the Bible says that it doesn't. That's all.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

I have wondered about this fo a while now. The bible tells of Cain and Able having sisters. But if Adam and Eve were the first. Did Cain and Able commit insest?

Presumably, they married their sisters. Would that qualify as incest? Perhaps, but given the fact that their parents had been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth, and would eventually need a little bit of help from their children, I think it's safe to assume that Cain and Able were doing pretty much as God intended they do under the circumstances.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by Mystic-als

I have wondered about this fo a while now. The bible tells of Cain and Able having sisters. But if Adam and Eve were the first. Did Cain and Able commit insest?

First of all, Abel was killed before he reproduced. So no, he idn't commit incest, but that's beside the point...

Seth and Cain committing incest is entirely possible and probably the most probable explanation.

I have also entertained the idea of God creating other people from dust after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden. There is no biblical evidence suypporting this, but there is nothing to say otherwise (that I know of). So, perhaps God could have created other people for them to marry. I'm not saying that's a hard and fast rule by any means, but it's something I have always considered a possibility. Even if it is proven to be wrong I wouldn't really be affected.

[almifkhar]

you know, the bible specifically states that first came cain and then abel. there is no talk of other siblings until after abel is dead and cain is sent away.

i myself do not believe that adam and eve were all there was.
the bible specifically states that cain was the first person to build a city and a city cannot be a city with out bare min. 100 persons. there is no mention of him leaving with anyone other than himself, and he was fearful that others would find out about his deed (killing of his brother)
my personal take on it is this,
cain was cast out alone for he alone commited the crime, and he alone had to feel the consequences of his actions, and while he was wondering met up with a lady and got married and had children.
the bible further states that seth was the 3rd. born of adam and eve and after him came all the other children. so with that said, how could cain have sexual relations with a sister when he didn't have any sisters?

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by almifkhar

you know, the bible specifically states that first came cain and then abel. there is no talk of other siblings until after abel is dead and cain is sent away.

i myself do not believe that adam and eve were all there was.
the bible specifically states that cain was the first person to build a city and a city cannot be a city with out bare min. 100 persons. there is no mention of him leaving with anyone other than himself, and he was fearful that others would find out about his deed (killing of his brother)
my personal take on it is this,
cain was cast out alone for he alone commited the crime, and he alone had to feel the consequences of his actions, and while he was wondering met up with a lady and got married and had children.
the bible further states that seth was the 3rd. born of adam and eve and after him came all the other children. so with that said, how could cain have sexual relations with a sister when he didn't have any sisters?

Or... Cain and Abel were the first children that had a reason to be talked about. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. The reason that other children weren't mentioned in the story may just be because there was no reason to. They aren't an important part of the story. We are also given no timeline except that Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born. For all we know the city you are talking about wasn't founded until a couple of hundred years after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, with them and their children and grandchildren multiplying like bunnies - and you are concerned that you would need at least 100 children? My grandma has that many descendants (granted, that was with spouses coming from outside the family, but she also hasn't been around 130+ years).

Also, it doesn't say that Seth was the 3rd child. Seth was the 3rd child named in the Bible. There is a difference. Notice, Seth was the one from which the lineage is taken - that's why it is written that way. That does not mean that he could not have had older brothers and sisters. And before you tell me that the named lineage would naturally go through the oldest surviving son, I dare you to find me examples of the Patriarchal birthright actually being passed from the father to the oldest son in the Bible. It doesn't happen often. (I'll get started - Abraham wasn't the oldest son, Isaac wasn't the oldest son, Jacob wasn't the oldest son, Joseph wasn't the oldest son, etc).

[almifkhar]

hello soy

you have a point, but...
the purpuse for the story of cain and abel is the foundation of bloodlines. legend says
that god was going to start over with man, thus came adam and his wife, satan wanted his kingdom back so decided to get into the holy bloodline that would come from adam (remember there is a great angelic battle going on. good/evil) anyway, eve was seduced (some say raped) and she became pregnant. god found out about it and had adam lay with her. she then became pregnant with abel. basically speaking she was pregnant with twins who had different daddies and this is not impossible. so she gave birth and cain was the first born. as time went on, he killed his brother abel off so that his seed would be the bloodline so to speak. god countered this by sending him on his way and from there adam had his son seth.
the bible specifically says that adam was 130 years when he had seth. after seth was born he lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. so in other words, 1.cain, 2.abel, 3. seth, 4 other sons and daughters
another way of looking at this religiously speaking is through the line of cain will come the antichrist where as the holy bloodline would come from seth, and this is where the line of abraham comes from, which will come the messiah. see good vs. evil