Islam and women (dress code, tradition, elder, prophet, experience)

[Djamila]

It's very common in most cultures, tlcmel. Visit southern Europe (Spain, Italy, The Balkans, and so on), South America, Africa, much of Asia, the Middle East, and so on - you'll not find many wives who haven't taken a smack or two, regardless of their religion. Add in the number that occur in Western Europe and North America and it would be significantly higher again, I'm certain.

It's a part of most cultures. That doesn't make it right, but it makes it a global issue and one that is beyond any religion. Now Muslim men who hit their wives often feel they have a religious reason for doing so, but this is just a crutch.

It's like the quote: "The modern American Republican is engaging in one of the oldest endeavors known to man: trying to find a superior, moral excuse for selfishness."

[Hacker]

It's different when it's advocated in a Holy book, I'm sorry, but i'll end this debate right here, it seriously saddens me, again I'm sorry.
Here's the website I was reading, and after I read it, I was a little angry.
www.faithfreedom.org

Then you click on leaving Islam. I just feel like it's wrong to have something like that in a Holy book,just like some things I question about the Holy bible.
This is why I don't belong to one specifc religion.

[Djamila]

Well, I still believe the passage says 'separate', not 'beat'. I responded in your Muslim belief thread, if you've not seen it.

[Hacker]

I'm glad that you don't believe that which comforts me, because if that's the case then I'm sure you won't marry a man who takes that verse literally(at least I dont think you would from reading your posts)...smart woman!
BTW,I couldn't help to ask those questions after reading on that site, I was so shocked. I'm a nursing student so politics aren't of interest to me, religion is, but I never actually studied Islam that much.

[Daniyal]

Originally Posted by tlcmel

It's different when it's advocated in a Holy book, I'm sorry, but i'll end this debate right here, it seriously saddens me, again I'm sorry.
Here's the website I was reading, and after I read it, I was a little angry.
www.faithfreedom.org

Then you click on leaving Islam. I just feel like it's wrong to have something like that in a Holy book,just like some things I question about the Holy bible.
This is why I don't belong to one specifc religion.

Hi!

You shouldn't read websites like that because all they do is twist and lie about things in the Qu'ran.

Check www.faithfreedom.com for the rebuttals and true aspects of Islam.

[zarulshahrin]

Originally Posted by Melody

I started to put this as part of a response in another thread, but decided it might seriously off track that thread. I look forward to responses, particularly from educated muslim women or western women who converted.

I see Islam as a religion for men. I see nothing in the religion that would appeal to a woman. My only experience with western women who have converted to Islam, are those I ran across in the battered women's shelter. These women either married muslims or their husbands converted and coerced them into doing the same. With rare exception, all had some history of prior abuse by a parent or spouse and were undergoing counseling to deal with the low self-esteem issues. One woman actually told me, when I asked why a western woman would choose such a religion, that she didn't have a problem with being treated as a second class citizen because she always felt she wasn't worth much anyway.

So my question becomes...why would any educated woman choose islam?

submission.org/women/

Men and women are both equal, god isn't bias.To answer your question regarding why an educated women choose Islam, It is because if they are really "educated", they would be smart enough to research everything on their own and know the difference between truth and lies. You don't follow a teaching blindly, but with knowledge. The problem with the women you met is, they are Muslim, because of their husband is Muslim and not because they themselves want to be muslim. For that reason, they don't bother to do any research and just follow what was told to them blindly.

Anyway, my understanding of the word "Islam" is submission/peace. and muslim means someone who submits him/herself to god. You may not be a muslim in the "paper agreement" but as long as you submit yourself to god, and follow the law of the Universe that leads yourself to Islam (Peace). You're a muslim.

[krashlocke]

Arabic, like Hebrew, is a rich language filled with idiosyncracies and is cataloged as being one of the most difficult languages to learn in the world, particualrly for english speakrs. There are only 26 letters with 3 long vowels, three shorts vowels (which are usually not written), and about ten or so letters with no direct english equivilents or similar english equivilents to eachother. Like most semetic languages, the root system allows for subtleties layed upon subtleties and many words, concepts, and connotations are unable to be translated.

Furthermore, as was mentioned eariler, Qurannic Arabic is different from any form
of spoken Arabic. Native speakers will usually be fluent in a their native dialect and have a limited understanding of MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) while native English speakers will usually only have a reasonable grasp of MSA with bits of dialect. You can see where translation can become difficult from this alone, let alone the differences of tongue and writing.

In short, if you want to truly grasp the Quran, yes, you will have to become a scholar of the Arabic language. Translating the Quran (something frowned upon in the haddith, if memory serves me) into English accurately will be nigh impossible given the weight of it's laws. This is a problem many Jews are familiar with regarding the Hebrew bible and many Christians should be even more frusterated with than they are, given that the oldest of their books are only sourced from a greek translation (the Septuagint).

This may be a factor to consider before critically examining religious texts for specific non-contextual meaning. Beware the literal translator.

[Peace4all]

Originally Posted by krashlocke

Arabic, like Hebrew, is a rich language filled with idiosyncracies and is cataloged as being one of the most difficult languages to learn in the world, particualrly for english speakrs. There are only 26 letters with 3 long vowels, three shorts vowels (which are usually not written), and about ten or so letters with no direct english equivilents or similar english equivilents to eachother. Like most semetic languages, the root system allows for subtleties layed upon subtleties and many words, concepts, and connotations are unable to be translated.

Furthermore, as was mentioned eariler, Qurannic Arabic is different from any form
of spoken Arabic. Native speakers will usually be fluent in a their native dialect and have a limited understanding of MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) while native English speakers will usually only have a reasonable grasp of MSA with bits of dialect. You can see where translation can become difficult from this alone, let alone the differences of tongue and writing.

In short, if you want to truly grasp the Quran, yes, you will have to become a scholar of the Arabic language. Translating the Quran (something frowned upon in the haddith, if memory serves me) into English accurately will be nigh impossible given the weight of it's laws. This is a problem many Jews are familiar with regarding the Hebrew bible and many Christians should be even more frusterated with than they are, given that the oldest of their books are only sourced from a greek translation (the Septuagint).

This may be a factor to consider before critically examining religious texts for specific non-contextual meaning. Beware the literal translator.

Frubals

[maro]

Originally Posted by Melody

I'm sorry you choose to see it as disrespectful. They look like sacks to me and I think they're hideous looking. I am still allowed my opinion. I think. Lately I've had some doubts.

I am an educated muslim girl ( medical student )

and it's my proud to go to my college as a ( sack )

rather than showing off my body , and pushing every one in the street to look at me

and as sister , ( Peace) has mentioned
ur opinion is not one of our concerns

and unless ,it is respectful , u better keep it for urself

[Laila]

Islam does not make women inferior, in fact it gives them a high status in society. If there are problems in Muslim societies, and boy there are, it is due to the 'superiority complex' of men not Islam.

I apologise to the lovely Muslim men, like TT, who understand the teachings of the Quran and the value of women.