oddities in the creation stories (Moses, Earth, Kingdom, translation)

[almifkhar]

there are somethings that i have always found a bit odd in the holy quran, torrah and in the holy bible. i will try to remember to do other threads on these oddities. on this thread i will foucs only on the creation stories in these three holy books.

holy quran
1. we have not created the heavens and the earth, and all that lies between them, out of fun.
2. man we fashioned from fermented clay dried tingling hard
3. if you have any doubt, o men, about being raised to life again remember that we created you from dust
4. we made several highways one over the other above you. we are not neglectful of creation.

holy bible
1. god said, let us make man in our image, in our likeness

now i have even read in a bible once (i don't remember which translation it was) and it stated WE CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH

i do have a jewish torrah here but it i cannot read hebrew, from what i have read on this subject, ehlom (spelled wrong sorry) is plural, and that this term for god is used up to moses. perhaps our jewish brothers and sisters on this forum could clear this up for me.

my question here is what is with the WE if god is ONE why the WE?

i have also noticed in the quran and holy bible, and the english in the torrah that the referrence to we is mainly used were the creation of man is concerned where as when the universe was created it usually mentions god alone created.

what does this mean, especially when we are talking about monothestic religons?

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by almifkhar

there are somethings that i have always found a bit odd in the holy quran, torrah and in the holy bible. i will try to remember to do other threads on these oddities. on this thread i will foucs only on the creation stories in these three holy books.

holy quran
1. we have not created the heavens and the earth, and all that lies between them, out of fun.
2. man we fashioned from fermented clay dried tingling hard
3. if you have any doubt, o men, about being raised to life again remember that we created you from dust
4. we made several highways one over the other above you. we are not neglectful of creation.

holy bible
1. god said, let us make man in our image, in our likeness

now i have even read in a bible once (i don't remember which translation it was) and it stated WE CREATED THE HEAVENS AND EARTH

i do have a jewish torrah here but it i cannot read hebrew, from what i have read on this subject, ehlom (spelled wrong sorry) is plural, and that this term for god is used up to moses. perhaps our jewish brothers and sisters on this forum could clear this up for me.

my question here is what is with the WE if god is ONE why the WE?

i have also noticed in the quran and holy bible, and the english in the torrah that the referrence to we is mainly used were the creation of man is concerned where as when the universe was created it usually mentions god alone created.

what does this mean, especially when we are talking about monothestic religons?

interesting that you bring this up. In my Tanach from the wonderful people Artscroll.com (cheap plug!) the commentary says something to the effect of, G-d was speaking to the ministering angels, taking into account what they had to say as well. Other commentary says that it is a royal We...like "We are not amused"
my hebrews not that good either but i'm pretty sure Elohim is not plural (like l'chiam "To life" is not translated "to lives" you know?)
binyamin or Deut. could probably shed different and better lights on this than i, but it's late and i don't think we will see Binyamin on until after Shabbat.

[Edgar]

It's refering to the trinity

[Terrywoodenpic]

Thats a good question

In England and Europe is was, and still is, normal for Kings and Queens to use the royal we.
So it was alwas we require, never I require.
I believe this was true in Rome and anchient Egypt

So if this was common practice for royalty how much more so when talking about God.

The Linguists in the forum might have a better Idea though.


Terry_____________________-
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by Edgar

It's refering to the trinity

I doubt it. the Trinity was not established in the old testament.

Terry______________________--
Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

[Edgar]

what do you mean it wasn't established

[Edgar]

The trinity never was established, it always was

[almifkhar]

wow this got hit quicker than i thougt it would.
jewscout, be sure to ask them please.

edger, i am going to do one about the trinty in a little bit, so hold on to that thought.

i don't believe this has to do with the trinty though, mainly because there is no talk of anything remotely about it in any of the books where creation is concerned. the quran however does speak about angels and jinns being created before man, but not in any kind of trinty scenerio.

keep the ideas a comming.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by Edgar

The trinity never was established, it always was

Not to the writers of genesis it wasn't
The knowledge of the Trinity, and the reality of the Trinity are two different things.
As they say"hindsight is a wonderful thing".


Terry__________________
Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by jewscout

interesting that you bring this up. In my Tanach from the wonderful people Artscroll.com (cheap plug!) the commentary says something to the effect of, G-d was speaking to the ministering angels, taking into account what they had to say as well.

Have you ever heard the term: r-a-t-i-o-n-a-l-i-z-a-t-i-o-n?