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How do you detect "design"?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is logical to deduce that if something is sufficiently complex it is because it has been designed.
No, it is not. The ID people understood that, which is why they didn't search for complexity, but rather, irreducible complexity and specified complexity. Everything with multiple parts is complex. The atmosphere is complex. The oceans are complex. A mountain is complex. And there is no evidence that any of them were designed.
Obviously, if someone considers a logical deduction fallacious, then they are not thinking correctly.
Correct. And if somebody commits a logical fallacy and doesn't recognize it, they are not thinking well. Are you claiming that what I have called fallacies are sound logical deductions? It seems so. But you've made no argument, just a claim that you committed no fallacy, and it's demonstrably incorrect. Of course, that assumes that you know what a logical fallacy is and how to identify one. All I can do is identify and name them for you. I can't make you understand why they are fallacies if you can't see why after I've explained it.
Irreducible complexity has never been shown to evolve through natural selection.
Of course irreducible complexity has never been shown to exist in naturalistically evolving life forms. It seems that you don't understand what irreducible complexity is or that it has never been identified in a biological system.
They have absolutely nothing to make even an informed opinion on in this matter.
It's the ID people who claim that irreducible complexity will point to an intelligent designer that have nothing, for which reason the biologists disregard their claims about an intelligent designer.
They cannot show true scientific understanding of something if their models are not supported by the empirical evidence.
The scientific model IS supported empirically. It's the creationists who lack empirical support.
Not even an informed opinion can be made, as this requires real data to build a rational belief on something.
The absence of irreducible complexity in biological systems is justification for not accepting claims about intelligent design predicated on in its presence.
It's a fact that they are there. Those are basic observations made in science.
What is "they" here? What are you saying is there?
The ID theory builds on those observations.
There is no ID theory, just a hypothesis and an insufficiently evidenced claim.
I already named several. You've ignored that.
I still don't know to what you refer here.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
No, it is not. The ID people understood that, which is why they didn't search for complexity, but rather, irreducible complexity and specified complexity. Everything with multiple parts is complex. The atmosphere is complex. The oceans are complex. A mountain is complex. And there is no evidence that any of them were designed.

(...)
Well, that seems like a play on words to me. Nothing changes from what I said before.

Obviously there are processes that are complex and natural, just like everything that is complex and continues to work after being put together; It continues to function as it was purposely created from the beginning.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Even if since evolutionists insist too much that everything that exists was produced and perfected by natural processes that follow laws that no one dictated, which makes them unable to know how to detect design, I heard a few things about how some people recognize design:

... edges that are too perfectly aligned, angles that are too right, combinations of substances impossible in nature, very complex symmetries, almost perfect circles, ... and other similar criteria.
Science does not claim anything is created perfectly. Please accurately represent science as science.

You need to support you assertions with scientific references concerning your misuse and misinformation of science. Symmetry has been well documented as a natural property of the natural world,
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It is logical to deduce that if something is sufficiently complex it is because it has been designed.
No, because such a logical deduction would require the assumption that something is designed before the argument is presented. This would represent the fallacy of Circular Reasoning where your assumptions are your conclusions.

The complexity in nature is a scientific issue and not a logical one.

The Discovery Institute has tried for years to falsify Intelligent Design and irreducible complexity and failed.
I am not going to get into the game of what is fallacy and what is not, because it is not the issue under consideration.
OK lets not bother with fallacies. lets deal with science as science, and drop the misrepresentation of science based on an ancient tribal agenda.

Obviously, if someone considers a logical deduction fallacious, then they are not thinking correctly.
Logical deduction is not a fallacy. Your misuse and misrepresentation of science involves fallacies.

Your argument against science does not involve legitimate logical deduction.
 
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