Men and Women

[Kfox]

So you can think as you like, but I can't when it comes to gender.

When the question at hand is about YOUR opinion, you can. But that isn't the case here the question at hand is about MY opinion

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

When the question at hand is about YOUR opinion, you can. But that isn't the case here the question at hand is about MY opinion

Okay, it is a fact and true that you have an opinion. But that doesn't make your opinion true and a fact.
Now I am concerced men and women and if that is based on facts or opinion or even a combintion.

 

[Yerda]

If it's not based on the mind, (thoughts) and it's not based on the body (biology) what else could it possibly be based on?

Most of what we call "mind" is the tip of the iceberg. Almost all of the processing we do is unconscious. If you pay attention to your thoughts you can "watch" them bubble up from below. That place below is where things like gender identity, personality traits, behavioural tendencies come from.

Not quite. Ya see the problem lies in trying to separate gender from biology; I don't do that. I have never "felt" like a man, I've always felt like myself, and because I have the biology of a man, I identify as a man. IOW there could never be a discrepancy between how I identify gender-wise and my biology, because my gender identification is 100% based on my biology.

Maybe you're right. But then we'd have to explain how gender identities that aren't 100% based on biology can occur. If, in principle, two things can be different then, by defintion, they can't be identical and we have good reason to believe that they can be different.

 

[Kfox]

That fact that I don't do that, is the truth.

And if somebody cared about that bit of truth, I'm sure they would have asked you; giving you the opportunity to express your truth. However, they asked me; not you.

 

[Kfox]

That gender depends on how an inidivudal think about it.

Which makes the definition of Gender meaningless; might as well not use the term at all.

 

[McBell]

Which makes the definition of Gender meaningless; might as well not use the term at all.

I have already posted the information showing that the word gender is not limited the way you want it to be in order for your "gender is meaningless" narrative needs it to be.

 

[McBell]

Which makes the definition of Gender meaningless; might as well not use the term at all.

Can you reveal your attachment to the word "gender" that prevents you from using the words "male"/"female" in its place?

At this point it seems extremely personal for you.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No, but that it is not as important as how they cope as such.
What you highlight is as part of it, but not all of it.

As for what everything is, that ends in different cognitive models for in effect how to understand everything, something, something else and/or nothing.
And yes, eveything is subjective in one sense, but not in another.

I'm really not sure what you're driving at, right now.
No one forces people to have strong opinions on issues, so if they are seeking to cope by avoiding cognitive dissonance, don't jump in on two issues with opposing viewpoints. Else it's not coping, it's a state of cognitive dissonance which will likely cause issues in the long term.

As for 'everything is subjective in one sense, but not in another', that's not only subjective, but also ambiguous, so not much I can say to it.

 

[Kfox]

Okay, it is a fact and true that you have an opinion. But that doesn't make your opinion true and a fact.

No; what I said was my opinion.

Now I am concerced men and women and if that is based on facts or opinion or even a combintion.

I have no idea what you just said here.

 

[Kfox]

Maybe you're right. But then we'd have to explain how gender identities that aren't 100% based on biology can occur.

I think it would be easier to just ask the people whose gender identity is not based on biology to explain what it is based on.

 

[Kfox]

I have already posted the information showing that the word gender is not limited the way you want it to be in order for your "gender is meaningless" narrative needs it to be.

That makes no sense to me. The only way a word can have meaning is if it's definition is limited. Any word without limits on it's definition, any word that can mean anything to anybody is a meaningless word.

 

[Kfox]

Can you reveal your attachment to the word "gender" that prevents you from using the words "male"/"female" in its place?

What are you talking about? Sometimes I say male or female, sometimes I say Gender; depending on the conversation. Where are you getting this stuff

At this point it seems extremely personal for you.

You are (mis)reading waaaay to much into this

 

[McBell]

What are you talking about? Sometimes I say male or female, sometimes I say Gender; depending on the conversation. Where are you getting this stuff

You are (mis)reading waaaay to much into this

Fair enough.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm really not sure what you're driving at, right now.
No one forces people to have strong opinions on issues, so if they are seeking to cope by avoiding cognitive dissonance, don't jump in on two issues with opposing viewpoints. Else it's not coping, it's a state of cognitive dissonance which will likely cause issues in the long term.

As for 'everything is subjective in one sense, but not in another', that's not only subjective, but also ambiguous, so not much I can say to it.

Yeah, funny how I considered if you would counter with cognitive dissonance and the related problems. Well, but the counter is that you can't teach a human to solve that unless that human is ready for that and if you try to force it, you can cause harm. Thus it ends back in coping, yes try to better the situation, but always remember it is about the human coping where that human is and is in fact capable of that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Which makes the definition of Gender meaningless; might as well not use the term at all.

So how do you know that or is it your opinion?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think it would be easier to just ask the people whose gender identity is not based on biology to explain what it is based on.

And that is allready asked and answered in general by in Denmark the deparment of health:

Kønsidentitet

For nogle mennesker vil kønsidentitet være forskellig fra det fødselstildelte køn.

www.sst.dk

Kønsidentitet er det enkelte individs indre følelse og oplevelse af sit køn.

 

[crossfire]

OK, I thinking I'm seeing what the problem here is: gender is a collective ideal/meme/stereotype.

The contention is whether individuals should be able to opt in or opt out of the gender stereotype with their own gender identity.

This is a battle over collectives overrunning individuals or not. (collateral damage and all that...)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK, I thinking I'm seeing what the problem here is: gender is a collective ideal/meme/stereotype.

The contention is whether individuals should be able to opt in or opt out of the gender stereotype with their own gender identity.

This is a battle over collectives overrunning individuals or not. (collateral damage and all that...)

To be technical it is about not dependent on brains, shared among several humans as dependent on brains and dependent on a single brain.
Or if you like natural, cultural and individual as mental. Or objective, intersubjective and subjective.

Now in effect some people treat the 2 first ones as the same and even in some cases the last one as the same as the others.
Where as I have learn to account for them as different.

 

[crossfire]

To be technical it is about not dependent on brains, shared among several humans as dependent on brains and dependent on a single brain.
Or if you like natural, cultural and individual as mental. Or objective, intersubjective and subjective.

Now in effect some people treat the 2 first ones as the same and even in some cases the last one as the same as the others.
Where as I have learn to account for them as different.

This is the problem with collective stereotypes. Do we let them overrun individuals, or do we stand up for individuals?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is the problem with collective stereotypes. Do we let them overrun individuals, or do we stand up for individuals?

Well, since I believe in the individual and not the group I have chosen sides.