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Its not euthanasia, its suicide.
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
1. The requirements of due care, referred to in Article 293 second paragraph Penal Code mean that the physician:
a. holds the conviction that the request by the patient was voluntary and well-considered,
b. holds the conviction that the patient’s suffering was lasting and unbearable,
c. has informed the patient about the situation he was in and about his prospects,
d. and the patient hold the conviction that there was no other reasonable solution for the situation he was in,
e. has consulted at least one other, independent physician who has seen the patient and has given his written opinion on the requirements of due care, referred to in parts a – d, and
f. has terminated a life or assisted in a suicide with due care.
2. If the patient aged sixteen years or older is no longer capable of expressing his will, but prior to reaching this condition was deemed to have a reasonable understanding of his interests and has made a written statement containing a request for termination of life, the physician may cant’ out this request. The requirements of due care, referred to in the first paragraph, apply mutatis mutandis.
LadyJane
Member
This is one of those private decisions between a doctor and their patient.
Quality of life is subjective and suffering with chronic illness, physically or mentally, is painful and exhausting. Something managed not treated. It is heartening to see euthanasia become more easily available to preserve the dignity we (all of us) deserve.
Like anything it should be carefully monitored. In assisted suicide cases, where a lethal drink is prescribed, people often shelve it until they are ready which suggests the autonomy it restores brings a tremendous amount of relief. And they bugger on a little longer. Then take it on their own terms.
If people don't want to be here they shouldn't have to be here.
Quality of life is subjective and suffering with chronic illness, physically or mentally, is painful and exhausting. Something managed not treated. It is heartening to see euthanasia become more easily available to preserve the dignity we (all of us) deserve.
Like anything it should be carefully monitored. In assisted suicide cases, where a lethal drink is prescribed, people often shelve it until they are ready which suggests the autonomy it restores brings a tremendous amount of relief. And they bugger on a little longer. Then take it on their own terms.
If people don't want to be here they shouldn't have to be here.
If the story is true, I find it disturbing and rife with ethical problems. If I were the doctor required to provide the lethal drug for the "euthanasia," I wouldn't be able to do it, and I would openly refuse to do so.
I was once told by a psychiatrist that my condition would become chronic and never get better unless I followed her prescription, which contained three potent medications in high doses. I sought more opinions and found out that she and two other psychiatrists had not only misdiagnosed me but rushed to medications without trying other approaches, like psychotherapy. I have been much better since I adopted the latter. Clearly, my condition wasn't as she had diagnosed it.
We know so little about the human brain and its connection to mental illness that declaring someone's depression incurable and essentially telling them that they have no hope of ever improving strikes me as utterly unconscionable. I was told more or less the same thing at one point, and I can't imagine what would have happened if my last two psychiatrists had given up on me instead of helping me as they did.
I was once told by a psychiatrist that my condition would become chronic and never get better unless I followed her prescription, which contained three potent medications in high doses. I sought more opinions and found out that she and two other psychiatrists had not only misdiagnosed me but rushed to medications without trying other approaches, like psychotherapy. I have been much better since I adopted the latter. Clearly, my condition wasn't as she had diagnosed it.
We know so little about the human brain and its connection to mental illness that declaring someone's depression incurable and essentially telling them that they have no hope of ever improving strikes me as utterly unconscionable. I was told more or less the same thing at one point, and I can't imagine what would have happened if my last two psychiatrists had given up on me instead of helping me as they did.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It makes me wonder if over there, a mentally retarded person expressed their desire to end their life, would be granted the same courtesy as this woman is.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Good thing we have your qualified diagnosis available and that you obviously know everything there is to know about this case in every possible way.
Right?
Someone will. And if it isn't true euthanasia, eventually she will do it herself.
Like her own mom said: "better that we can do this in a humane manner then having to scrape your remains from the rails"
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Correct and depending on the person / case, severe chronic depression might actually be a worse burden to carry.
Ignatius A
Active Member
I'm not really sure how
I'm not really sure how anyone could be astounded by this. We are saturated in a culture that doesn't respect life. We have decided that life is valuable only in specific situation. Life has been supplanted by "personhood".
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
You might want to consider that outside of the US, where health is not considered a "luxury product", this is not the case.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
It may be their business, but the devastating impact of suicide on the lives of friends and families of the deceased, should not be underestimated. It can cause more pain than murder, to those left behind.
No, I bothered to read the ****ing article unlike most of you people throwing your smug attitudes at me, and share my views on it based on my extensive knowledge and experience with mental health issues and treatments. If you don't like it, keep scrolling.
Dead is dead, regardless of method and I find that such a gross thing for a mother to say.
Except that the depression isn't fatal on its own and can be helped.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
If it was that bad and chronic, that would have been the case at the start.
Clearly life is preferred by this woman over immediate death indicating she is still hopeful , and I suspect the doctor quickly put an end to this woman's hope by telling here she is beyond rehabilitation and will never get better.
That's absolutely **** poor medicine.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Right, and after reading some small article on some news site, you think you can assess the full picture of the case in question which has been dragging on for years with plenty of doctors and treatments and therapies - none of which are even mentioned in the one article you read.
The article, in fact, is barely even about her specific case.
Spoken like someone who judges the entire case based on a single article in which a mere couple sentences are about her specific case and the rest about euthanasia and mental health care in general.
And you call me "smug". Maybe you should do a bit of self-reflection and consider how you are forming a judgement here based on virtually NO INFORMATION AT ALL.
Go back to the article and read it again. Better yet, copy past it to word. Then remove every sentence that isn't specifically about her specific case. Then read what is left over. Then consider if you feel like you honestly have enough intel to be so judgemental about it.
I just did that exercise. I counted exactly TWO sentences (TWO!!) that concerns her specific case.
"smug"... for crying out loud.
If you have more info, post it. It won't change my moral or ethical position, though.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Exactly, so there is no point in posting more info.
You have already made up your mind. And nothing I post will change your mind - your own words.
Funny how you just proved my point.
But *I* am the one who's "smug".
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
People in this very thread have just given you info which shows that that is not true.
But why bother right... nothing anyone posts will change your mind.
That's the very definition of closed mindedness.
I don't change my moral views easily. That would be rather dumb, as if they are that shallow. But you're not even giving me the chance to understand it more. That's your problem.Exactly, so there is no point in posting more info.
You have already made up your mind. And nothing I post will change your mind - your own words.
Funny how you just proved my point.
But *I* am the one who's "smug".
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Another one who reads an article in which exactly 2 sentences give some vague intel on her specific case and who then thinks that makes them qualified to accuse people "poor medicine" and what-not.
Internet doctors, to the rescue!
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You don't have to be a doctor to recognize poor medicine in practice.